House Healthcare Bill Breakdown: Letter From Dr. Stephen E. Fraser, MD

US Health OverhaulDr. Fraser has put some time into this, it is accurate and a good read!!

An Indianapolis doctor’s letter to Sen. Bayh about the Bill (Note: Dr. Stephen E. Fraser, MD practices as an anesthesiologist in Indianapolis, IN ) Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh. Feel free to copy it And send it around to all other representatives.

– Stephen Fraser July 23, 2009 Senator Bayh, As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the Health care bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am Shocked by the brazenness of the government’s proposed involvement in the Patient-physician relationship. The very idea that the government will Dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in Designing a health care system that works for all. Every physician I work With agrees that we need to fix our health care system, but the proposed Bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if Passed. I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at The following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot Possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the Country and our fellow citizens. Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit Books of all employers that self-insure!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE That decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will Choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL Non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to Individuals”s finances & ; a ‘National ID Health card’ will be issued!

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to Your bank accounts for elective funds transfer.

Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and Their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages For private HC plans in the ‘Exchange.’

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans — The Govt will ration your health care!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic Appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members – your health care WILL be rationed!)

Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals Will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)

Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price Fixing. No “judicial review” against Govt monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association – The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees Into public option plan. (NO choice!)

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time Employees AND their families. (Employees shouldn’t get excited about this As employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and Wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above Who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the Last comment in parenthesis.)

Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn’t provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn’t have Acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt From individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans’ finances and personal records.

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” (Yes, it really says that!)

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected.)

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn’t matter what specialty you have trained yourself in — you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that’s not Socialism!)

Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor’s time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally– the value of humans.)

Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for “private” HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e…re-admissions).

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission — the Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)

Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of=2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want — rationing.)

Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)

Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of ‘special needs people!’ Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a “Tele-Health Advisory Committee.” (Can you say HC by phone?)

Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates “Advance-Care Planning Consult.” (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)

Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it’s mandatory!)

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an “approved” list of end-of-life resources; & nbsp;guiding you in death. (Also called ‘assisted suicide.’)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on “end-of-life.” (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An “advanced-care planning consultant” will be used frequently as a patient’s health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: An “advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?!?)

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order. (I wouldn’t want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again — no choice!)

Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services. Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating. Furthermore, if you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor-patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election. Respectfully, Stephen E. Fraser, MD

Please also read part 2 of  this post Healthcare Reform: Stephen Fraser Letter Controversy, More Truth Than Fiction? 

About RodZ
The Common Man: I am just that, someone who spent 30 plus years working for the government as a mid-level manager and program manager. This forum allows me to have a voice and share my concerns. I have been a voting member of the silent majority my entire adult life, now however it seems voting is not enough and being silent is a bad idea. This forum is an attempt to move the conversation from the kitchen table, friends and families to people who would also like to voice opinions and Participate in a civil debate.

Comments

34 Responses to “House Healthcare Bill Breakdown: Letter From Dr. Stephen E. Fraser, MD”
  1. Bridgid says:

    Rod

    Snopes.com and Factcheck.org are really useful Web sites when you receive chain email letters like the one you posted above.

    This “letter” from “Dr. Stephen Fraser” is nothing more than a rehashed version of a previously debunked email.

    Factcheck.org “We can trace the origins of this collection of claims to a conservative blogger who issued his instant and mostly mistaken analyses as brief “tweets” sent via Twitter as he was paging through the 1,017-page bill. The claims have been embraced as true and posted on hundreds of Web sites, and forwarded in the form of chain e-mails countless times. But there’s hardly any truth in them.”

    http://factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

  2. Bridgid,

    I went to the place you suggested. And this is what I am seeing.

    1) The letter was an opinion from someone take on the healthcare bill (to me it does not really matter who it claiming it was written by, it is still someones opinion)
    2) the Debunking as you call it was mostly just someone elses opinion on the same information.
    3) a rehashing of the healthcare bill weather or not it is from one site or another is still just everyones opinion. rehashing=opinion
    4) I believe when you are talking opinions against opinions you can NOT say it is Debunked, it just another opinion is differant.
    Example of what I am getting at is.. If I said the sky was gray and you said it was lite blue. Those are both opinions of what we saw. Neither side can really say we debunked the other because it is all based on opinions.
    Factcheck.org’s claims that the information is untrue is incorrect because they said it was untrue because they believed what they read in the bill had a differant meaning than the person had wrote and then explained their own rehashed version of that section. They also claimed it was untrue because they traced to back to someone tweets. and I am not saying this is true or not, but just because someone Tweets what was in an email that was circulated does not mean he was the one that orginally wrote it.
    I personally did not care who wrote the letter but I did feel the person that wrote it had some pretty good opinions about it I also feel Rod has some very good opinions on the healthcare issues. Now if you have some opinions on the healthcare issues I would like to hear those too, but I have yet to hear any opinions come from your side other than you don’t like someone elses opinion. Sorry but this is just my opinion on what I am seeing and had to stick my 2 cents in!

    Kathleen

  3. Wiley Brooks says:

    Both the Annenberg Foundation, which owns Fact Check and Snopes are known liberal organizations. So, I always take that into account when considering their so called “facts”

  4. Bridgid says:

    Kathleen

    I do not apologize for researching and fact-checking and sharing information from other sources. Opinions are worthwhile. Opinions based on careful reading and honest reasoning are (in my opinion!) more valuable than those based on deliberate misreading and scare-mongering. Most (not all) of the criticism of the various healthcare reform bills have been of the scare-mongering type.

    I seem to recall providing my opinion about healthcare reform in several comments here before. But in a nutshell, it is this:

    Health insurance should be universally available, affordable, and portable (not tied to one’s employment).

    There are a number of good ways to achieve these objectives. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans in Congress have all the answers, but we have known for several decades that our current method of providing health care in this country was going to reach a crisis point. And since 1980 when President Reagan took office, through a total of three Republican terms, no legislation was offered. President Clinton attempted to get legislation introduced, but went about it badly. Then two more Republican terms, and again, no meaningful reform legislation. The $ 1 trillion Medicare drugs bill signed by President Bush (W. not H.W.) was a massive giveaway to the pharmaceutical industry (something Obama’s administration has also done) and was not paid for by either increased taxes or cuts in spending.

    So, my point is Republicans in Congress have not shown any willingness to engage on this issue when they have been in power, and when Democrats have attempted to engage, Republicans have ensured that their efforts would fail.

    I don’t like everything in the two bills currently under consideration (House and Senate) and I agree with a lot of what Rod says about the legislation being hijacked by special interests. But Republicans need to step up and provide alternatives. So far, they haven’t.

    As for Wiley’s remark about Annenberg Foundation and Snopes being “liberal” organizations–hmmm, I know that Walter Annenberg started the Annenberg Foundation and his daughter is the current VP. Walter Annenberg was a dyed-in-the-wool conservative, a strong supporter of Reagan.
    In 2007, the Reagan Foundation announced that they would be starting a “Walter and Leonore Annenberg Presidential Learning Center” and the Annenberg Foundation donated $10 Million to the Reagan foundation for this cause.

    “The national program will focus on teaching students of all ages, K-12 through college, the importance of civility and responsibility in the government arena. Students will learn the importance of participating in the democratic process and working together – as Ronald Reagan did with government leaders of all political parties – for the common good.”

    FactCheck is very even-handed. They have an excellent article up right now on some of the accounting “gimmicks” that Democrats in Congress are using to try to show that their versions of the health reform bills will save more money. It’s worth reading. I know nothing about the political persuasion of the people who run Snopes.com, but I know that they offer a valuable service debunking hoax e-mails and other Internet garbage that floats around.

  5. Bridget,

    Never expected or wanted you to apologize for doing research, I also do a lot of research myself. I have just learned over many years that just because someone says something is untrue do not necessarily mean that it is untrue.
    As I have said before I am not really a one side or the other type of political person. I do not think I could ever be classed into any one political party… Except maybe the lighter side of all political parties, I love making people smile and laugh if I can, but I do also have a side of me that loves to debate things and sometimes I will also debate a side I do not favor. Like being a devil’s advocate. I find I learn a lot more that way sometimes. And sometimes it is just my nature to throw something at someone to make them think.
    I am however will admit I am very opinionated and feel all politics are just everyone being opinionated in one way or another. I do not believe anyone can state 90% of what they call Facts without it being partly an opinion. I would say a fact is like dates things happened. But when anyone says it “means this” then you smack back to it’s an opinion and can’t be a fact.
    So when someone say the twin towers were bombed on September 12th the facts show it happened on September 11th so you can the first date was debunked or not a fact. But if someone said the reason it was bombed was “So and so” you really can’t debunk that as not a fact because that is really just an opinion, but you can disagree with it because of other factors you might know and such and state why you think it was not a good opinion.
    When you said “Health insurance should be universally available, affordable, and portable (not tied to one’s employment).” I will say I would agree with a general statement like that, but in my opinion there is a lot more to the issue than that. Because my first reaction is “Yes” to universally available, but no to forced to have to take it. And Affordable I would say, “Yes,” but then my devil’s advocate says “nothing is affordable to “all”, and someone has to pay for it somehow for those that can’t afford it, so saying “affordable to all” to me equals socialism which in my opinion is not something I would want. Portable this one I would say I totally agree with you on. So where we can agree to a degree, but you start talking how to get it done we may or may not agree on.
    I will also totally agree with your statement, “Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans in Congress have all the answers.” I am not convinced that there would be a number of good ways to achieve the objectives. As “good” is subjective as in good for whom? It has been shown over and over what is “good” for some is not always “good for all.” I am one of those firm believers that nothing is ever “good” for everybody.
    As far as the Republicans or Democrats doing or not doing things in the past that just shows me that neither side can solve the world’s problems and make everyone happy Also there seems to be so much arguing and hijacking by special interests on both sides about all the issues that neither side could ever truly fix anything. I would personally say that in my opinion the best outcome would be the outcome that hurt the least amount of people, but I don’t even see that happening at this point.

  6. Chuck says:

    When my opinion agrees with your opinion, my opinion is well reasoned.

    When my opinion disagrees with your opinion, my opinion is fear mongering.

    When we read and consider one another’s opinion – that is discourse.

    I vote for more discourse and I hope my Senator would, too.

    Chuck

  7. David says:

    I remember an executive telling me that if I could not boil the issue down to a single page that I also included a solution that I had not thought enough about the problem. The same executive like to say the devil is in the details – and that is where he gets you.

    Yeh, and I know that RR would tell his staff that line about the problem on a single page. He did not invent it – but used it.

    A law that has over 1,000 pages is too big – and has too many opportunities for mischief.

    As the “client” of the lawmakers – I know they have NOT really thought enough about the subject – and the solution. I want to hand them back the document and tell them to cut it by 99%.

    Is health care a right? STOP. Define Health Care. Define a RIGHT.

    Too bad so many people want something for nothing.

  8. Ed says:

    Since when does the world owe any of you out there anything…..where is it written that someone else should take care of you. Provide you with an eduation medical care and retirement…..Our mindset is for someone else to go out and bring home the bacon and feed it to us. You all want something for nothing.

    If you really want health care reform just do three things….abolish healthcare insurance all together, allow drug companies to compete and limit liability lawsuits…..think of it… If the medical profession wanted to make a living some adjustments would surely have to be made. Competition is a wonderful thing.

    I for one want nothing from the government…..my freedom is far more important to me than anything the government can take from you and give to me and with strings attached…..Mark my words, nationalized healthcare will be the final nail in the coffin of middle class america. Government is like cancer it voraciously feeds off it’s host until death. We are doomed unless we wake up and stop the insanity !!!

  9. LaFonda says:

    The Fraser letter just hit my office. I sent the following response to Senator Bayh.

    Dear Senator Bayh,

    I want to encourage you to continue pursuing the passage of our Nations Healthcare reform bill.

    Please do not give into the “scare tactics” of individuals like that of Dr. Fraser. We need our Government’s intervention into this current, devastating, financially crippling, money-over-health Healthcare system.

    I’d like to see our healthcare system “include” preventive healthcare maintenance like “Gym Memberships”, “massage therapy” “Good Nutrition Education” and “Homeopathic” medicine.

    In our current system Doctors either want to “cut” you or “drug” you. (Surgery or Medication) I don’t care for either treatment. It’s all about money, not keeping our citizens “healthy”.

    Keeping our citizens healthy would put a lot of drug companies and Doctors out of business. (Just a thought.)

    I emphasize that in this “Healthcare Bill”, we include something in there that will relate to preventive healthcare in the way of good nutrition, exercise, stress reduction and homeopathic options.

    Dr. Fraser really doesn’t want his pocket book/bank account affected. What he points out in his email has contradictions, is biased, is selective from his viewpoint and has “scare tactic” written all over it. Please don’t be intimidated by his thought processes.

    I want a good healthcare bill that will be an asset in helping me to keep me and my family healthy and OUT of the Doctors office.

    One more note – My employer currently pays $600.00 a month for my health insurance. I rarely use any of it. I pay out of pocket to see a massage therapist, for my vitamin and mineral supplements, and for my Chiropractic care. I cannot afford a “gym membership”, so I try to do as much walking as possible. All of the money that my employer currently pays amounts to $7,200.00 a year and I’ve used a maximum of $500.00 of it during 2009. What happens with the other $6,700.00? As far as I can see, it disappears into a black hole. I could sure use some of that same money to pay for a gym membership, get massages and buy my vitamin and mineral supplements.

    Take that information to Congress!

  10. timefornew says:

    Same old story song and dance. This one is trying to screw that one. Lots of money to be made by the Insurance industry and ultimately Wall Street. Politicians are bought and paid for a long time ago. Politicians solve no problems. The monetary system is obsolete. This is the only solution, The Venus Project-not perfect but better than so called free market capitalism. Changing will not come easily. If we don’t change the consequences will be terrible.

  11. Sue says:

    I would truly like to know how many of you have written to your senators and congressmen on this subject, or is it just easier to air your opinions and do nothing about it !!!!
    Not that it will do any good, but we should all get together and stop this if we have so many problems with the bill. Anyone game?
    Just another opinion

  12. RodZ says:

    Sue, when you use pronouns to ask who is writing congress, we are not sure who you are addressing. Are you asking the general readership or those of us at yes-23? If you read the blog you would find several letters I wrote to congress addressing many issues.
    You will also find we are strong advocates of writing our reps.

  13. Bridgid says:

    I agree Rod–that’s something Yes-23 has done really well here, both writing to and posting replies from your congressional reps, and encouraging readers to do the same.

  14. Mike Turner says:

    Dear Bridgid (and others),
    I’m a conservative republican. I’m not rich; in fact, I work hard and make enough to get by. I firmly believe that the free-market system of capitalism, while flawed, has proven to be the best socio-economic system on the planet, bar none. It’s what our country was founded on, and what made it such a powerful and financially secure nation. It is the best country in the world in which to live. Some may entirely disagree with that, but then let them ask the millions trying to get here. Every other socio-economic structure throughout history, particularly those operated wholly by federal governments, have failed and eventually become the downfall of the bureaucratic nation. Even communist China has reverted to capitalism to some degree, because they know it works. Some try to tell me that socialized Europe works, but it’s evident that it doesn’t if evaluated closely.
    Our government is a republic that protects the rights of the minority (the individual), not a democracy where the majority rules. As I understand it, a republican believes that a person’s individual rights are paramount and should be protected, provided his or her actions do not impose on the rights of another individual. These rights are protected and governed by smaller localized entities, such as states, counties, or cities. A democrat believes in the welfare of the society as a whole (i.e. socialism), and is willing to sacrifice the rights of the individual if the majority believes it will benefit the community (i.e. communism). This is controlled and/or operated by larger governmental bodies at the national level. This may be a simplified definition, but essentially correct.
    Therefore, as a republican I don’t advocate the government mandating that individuals pay for social programs. I do believe in charitible efforts on one’s own cognizance through private programs (and there are many). I realize there are many poor citizens in this country, and we need to have more awareness and concern for the needs of others. I pray that God will be merciful to them and bring them peace and prosperity through the assistance of others. However, among the “inalienable rights” of man are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Never among them is “prosperity”. Prosperity is NOT an individual right. Regardless of what the liberals will say, redistribution of wealth is neither ethical nor moral, that is, to take away from someone who has, and give to someone who has not, simply because the majority says it should be done. That’s what is not fair.
    Bridgid, you said in your November 27th comment, “But Republicans need to step up and provide alternatives. So far, they haven’t.” That’s what many people believe, but this is simply not the case. Please take a look at the GOP website for the alternatives to this and many other issues we face today;
    http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
    Here is the alternative bill:
    http://rules-republicans.house.gov/Media/PDF/RepublicanAlternative3962_9.pdf
    Here is the impact summary:
    http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/Summary_of_Republican_Alternative_Health_Care_plan_Updated_11-04-09.pdf
    So, as you can see, there are other well-planned options, but they are not very well known for reasons we can expound on later.
    I know liberals see the world through completely different eyes, and while I may never agree with their point of view, I recognize it exists. I try to at least look at something from their perspective before summarily dismissing it.
    Regardless of your particular viewpoint, here’s wishing you all a Happy New Year!

    Mike

  15. Terry says:

    I think Bridgit is all wet. Republicans have had an input, it is just that the Democrats have shut them out of any discussion during this current BHO admin.

    How about tort reform, cross state lines for health insurance, to name a couple. And I don’t believe snopes or Factcheck, both are biased.

    The Annenberg Foundation was originally conservative but then a lot of left wing socialists infiltrated and a lot of money is diverted to left wing causes.

  16. Bridgid says:

    Yes, I agree with Terry. Let’s just call each other names and recite our most deeply held (and often indefensible) beliefs about “the other side” who are always evil and nefarious. “Our side” is pure and good. Never let the facts get in the way of your belief system.

    “Four legs good! Two legs bad!”

    God bless you George Orwell!

  17. PaulN says:

    “Health insurance should be universally available, affordable, and portable”…

    Agreed- and it is.

    It’s available to everyone- for a price. If one feels that one can’t afford that price, then do something about it instead of expecting everyone else to do it for you.

    People with higher costs for HI because of kids didn’t get those kids delivered by the stork- they need to take responsibility for their actions.

    Why is that so much to ask for?

  18. Bridgid says:

    OK Paul, I’ll play along with you. What about hard-working blue collar Americans who’ve worked every day of their lives to feed, clothe, and shelter their families. Let’s talk about just one hard-working American, say, a guy who works at an auto parts company that supplies the Big Three. Let’s call him “Joe.” Joe and his family have health insurance through his employer. But now Joe is being laid off, because the automobile industry isn’t doing so well. Joe’s wife was diagnosed with cancer a few months ago. Because of her pre-existing condition, she won’t be able to find affordable health insurance anywhere.

    But you’re right. Joe should have had the foresight to realize that his wife would be diagnosed with cancer and he would lose his job. Cancer, like kids, isn’t delivered by the stork. So he should have never married in the first place. Or maybe he should have divorced his wife. Whatever. It’s Joe’s fault regardless. Come on Joe, why is that so much to ask for?

  19. James says:

    Facts are NOT opinions.

    If you say an apple is blue and I say it’s red, both statements are not equally valid because they are both just “opinions”. The apple is a specific color, and red is not blue.

    Reading the text of the Bill is not forming an “opinion”. The Bill is written in English, and uses very specific language. This “letter” claims that the Bill provides health care to illegal (undocumented) aliens. However, the Bill explicitly states that the funds provided by this Bill CANNOT be used for undocumented aliens. The “letter” attempts to point to a very specific line allowing coverage for any one regardless of personal characteristics. He isn’t stating an opinion, he is making a claim of a fact. However, he deliberately does not mention that what he cites says that does not apply when coverage is explicitly excluded in any other sections of the bill. Undocumented aliens are explicitly excluded from coverage at least 3 times in the Bill.

    He is not stating his “opinion”, he is making claims of fact that are demonstrably untrue. Most of us refer to that as lying.

  20. JJ says:

    I agree fact is fact. However, the bill is written to be specifically vague. “Offiicial” documents are written this way as to not contradict itself.

    The fact is I see a green apple, a granny smith- see how ambiguous your statement is!

    At any rate, to expect the worst from congress and to lean toward the most socialistic interpretation is more realistic.

  21. Judy says:

    IF THIS OBAMACARE BILL IS SO WONDERFUL AND HONEST, 1) WHY IS IT BEING DISCUSSED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS? 2) WHY ARE THE DEMS HAVING TO PAY FOR VOTES FROM THEIR OWN?
    I DON’T WANT THE GOVERNMENT BUTTING INTO MY LIFE. THEY ARE ALREADY TO INVOLVED. LOOK AROUND YOU AND TELL ME THAT THINGS ARE GOOD AND GETTING BETTER. YOU CAN’T BECAUSE THINGS ARE NOT GOOD AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER UNTIL WE CLEANSE THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE….AND DEFINITELY THE WHITE HOUSE.

  22. fivegreightkids says:

    Wow, to capture all the issues I have had through out the course of this disease seems to be an almost impossible task. It all started at the age of 5. I was living in Bohemia, NY. This is about the time I had a strange red ring growing larger and larger on my back. It was believed to be a reaction to a spider bite.

    Well, after that there were years of vision problems, memory lose, ear and throat infections and a constant battle with what the doctor thought was the flu. Around age 8, I began to have serious problems with my vision and balance. I began to experience a form of double vision. However, I would not be able to see what was directly in front of me, only the things off to the side. Weird!

    Then, the seizures started. I was taken to the hospital and released with the diagnosis of Epilespy. Things continued to get worse for me. I was still sick all the time. To make matters worse…nobody believed that my whole body hurt.

    Two years later, at age 10, I was taken off my med. for seizures. That lasted for about 6 months, until I had yet another Gal Mal seizure. This one was really bad! I didn’t come out of the seizure for two hours. After this seizure, my symptoms were significantly worse. However, nobody believed me!

    I was hospitalized a couple of weeks after my last seizure and spent approx. 2 weeks in a teaching hospital in NY. Here a whole gambit of tests were run. The conclusion was…I was lying about my symptoms and doing it for attention. REALLY?!?! I could walk, talk, I slept the majority of the day and night away, the vision problems were present, so on and so on….

    Bouts of meningitis symptoms plagued my teenage years, along with joint pain. I had two spinal taps by the age of 15 and when the wanted to do another one around the age of 17…I said, “No!”. I knew from past experience that they would not find what they thought they would. I knew that this would also pass.

    The problems with joint pain progressively got worse through my teenage years. I was diagnosed with Sciatica. I couldn’t walk when it kicked in! This continued as I entered into my 20′s. When at the age of 20 I collapsed my lower back. When the Orthopedic surgeon had seen my x-rays, he told me that I had the spine of an 80 year old woman. Not good!

    At 21, I had my first of 5 children. Yes, I am truly blessed by God! However, after the birth of my first child I started feeling sick again. I had attributed the way I felt to being a new mom. Then, the ear infections started. I battled them for a few months and they eventually went away. However, the joint pain started to come back and wasn’t going away.

    The second pregnancy was plagued with issues. I had bladder infections and I had gone into preterm labor at 29 weeks. The doctor thought that I might have Strep B. I was started on antibiotics for the Strep. After delivery, Gabriella wouldn’t breath. For two minutes she gave us a problem. Eventually she came out of it.

    To this day, Gabriella has many symptoms that he doctors cannot diagnose as one or two or any particular disease or disorder. It is my belief that she suffers from Lyme, but what do I know? I’m only her Mom! Her tests have come back and she in fact has some bands..but not enough. She does have some antibodies… but not enough. I will also note that this is the same for my other kids that have been tested (3 out of 5).

    I had four more pregnancies -one miscarriage and three more children. During these pregnancies, I suffered from bladder infections, issues with veins blowing out in both my hands and legs. I still have that problem. Ugh! By the fifth child I was a mess!

    This last bout started in February of this year and has had all the problems I could think of. It started with CFS, Fibro, migraines, noise sensitivity, veins blowing, vision problems – including lots of floaters. Then, slight tremors and poor memory were starting to become an apparent problems. In May, I was hospitalized for what they thought was Cardiac Failure. They found some inflammation around the heart and irregular heart rhythm. I was released with heart meds…. but no answer to my problem. Oh, by this time I had also been suffering from an ear infection for approx. one year. My primary had me on Zithromax for approx. 6 months by this point.

    Now the troubles really became severe. My joints hurt to the point that no one could even touch me. I would cry in pain. The noise and light sensitivity was so severe that I could not be around my kids. My heart was getting worse, the tremors were taking over and the vision and memory were so bad that I was really thinking that I could die…and no one would ever know what this was.

    I was so feed up that I spent a night on the computer and typed in all the things that I was dealing with. Lyme Disease was the first thing on the list. I had been tested before for it… and well lets just say…I don’t want to go there!!! It was positive. My doctor didn’t believe it! So, I asked for a second opinion. He made me an appointment a month later with a ” Lyme Specialist” a month later. I was in really bad shape. I could barely walk, talk or stay awake. I was admitted that night and spent 10 days in the hospital for Chronic Lyme Disease. Picc line, Spinal tap, lots of pain meds., TEE testing, EKG, Ultrasound, numerous blood tests…that was my 10 days. However, according to my primary…I still didn’t have Lyme. Eight pillows in my bed…. because my body hurt all over and I couldn’t have anything but the pillows touching me…but no Lyme…according to him.

    He was very wrong! His own tests proved him wrong. The multiple tests in the hospital prove him wrong! My body is a testimony to how wrong he was…for ten years since the first test he ran! I was positive the whole time.

    Now, the insurance battle begins. I was on antibiotics for one month. I was told by the “Lyme Specialist” that that was the standard treatment for Lyme. Anything I had suffered from that day on… I would have to LEARN TO LIVE WITH! “Tell that to my husband and five kids!”

    I was back sliding and had no one to help me. My “Lyme Speacialist” was a joke! My primary still denied the diagnosis- even with four groups of Specialist confirming it! I had one week to find a doctor that would help me! However, due to insurance regulations, I had to come off my picc line. I cried and I was angry!! This is so unfair!

    With lots of prayer, I was able to find a doctor. He was right here in Orlando. He could restart the IV because the insurance had to have it noted that the treatment failed. I was now a guinea pig! Instead of the Picc, he put me on oral antibiotics. The doctor knew they would fail…but had to do it. I slide even further down.
    I was so sick after a month… that I was put back on the picc line. This time for two months instead of one. I was also put on a Lyrica to help with the pain and tremors.

    I was having some pretty good days. However, the IV med was to stop the day after Thanksgiving…and it did. I didn’t feel like that was realistic….. but the insurance will not cover it any longer then that. I was fearful of losing the one thing that four out of seven days is helping me be a wife and mom!

    I did lose it. And the story continues….I am back on the IV! The attempt to pull me off my meds failed. To top that… I was told by my current ID doctor that “This is the last time I can prescribe IV for you. I refuse to lose my license over treating you!”

    THERE IS NO WAY I WANT AND MORE LEGAL INVOLVEMENT IN MY HEALTHCARE! THEY WILL KILL THOSE OF US WITH LYME WITH THEIR PROTOCOL!

  23. CSM Hayward Bellah says:

    How are Hope and Change working out for you? Those who blindly follow the looney left programs sought by Marxists in the US Congress and White House primarily come from two groups…..the misinformed and the uniformed. There may be Hope for some of you who blindly follow the teachings of Marx because you don’t understand but Change to a Facist system of government is the ultimate goal of those who are anti capitalist to the core. Not much can be done for you. EVERYTHING that comes out of the Presidents mouth is a LIE…….I’m sure you Facists believe that all is fair in love and war…….! This is certainly WAR to you who wish the overthrow of the Constitution of the United States of America! If you are someone who still has an ounce or two of Love for our country please listen to every speech given by B Obama and then follow up and see if you can find any actual Truth in anything he says!!!

  24. Ralph Jenniches says:

    I believe this Health Bill, if past, will bankrupt our nation. This is just one more step of government getting into our lives, doing what will keep them in office at our expense. The next step will be the Dems passing another amnesty bill for tens of millions illegals in this country. I, myself, do not want any of my tax money supporting aliens whose first act is to break our laws by entering our country illegal. If this keeps up we will me the minority of the nation we have supported all these years. The thought of what this country is becoming makes me sick.

  25. OldNYFirefighter says:

    Let me ask those who want this Bill to pass. How is your personal Health Care going to be if 30 or 40 million people are added to the system, without increasing the infrastructure of Dr.s, nurses & all of the other Health Professionals & more facilities to care for people? None of that is even discussed in either version of the Bill. There are many Dr. nurses & others that are going to quit the profession because they don’t want the Government dictating where they will practice & how much they will make. Especially when Congress gave themselves a raise for a pert time job & with the economy in critical condition. Those plans are in the Bills. Now Obama wants to add College Tuition in this same Law that has absolutely nothing to do with Health Care. There is so much Pork in this proposed law it would supply lifetime bacon for all of us. There are other options & I will guarantee Illegals will be covered for free while you will pay for them. That is factual right now – an emergency room can not turn you away even if you can’t pay for it. Like it or not you are already paying for them & will continue. Liberals think they are the majority in this country, but that is a fantasy trip on your part. You will find that out next November. The hope & change you voted for will be higher costs for everything, including your Health Care.

  26. Bridgid says:

    All CSM Bellah and Ralph have chosen to do is simply repeat the latest talking point or bumper sticker slogan, or hurl insults and name-call as if we’re on the school playground — Fascist! Marxist! Liar! — and those are just the names that are said out loud. I am amazed that patriotic American citizens honestly have so little faith in our form of government that they think the republic is collapsing because THE OTHER PARTY WON AN ELECTION!

    That’s what happened. Several million more of your fellow citizens voted for Obama. More people voted for Democrats in Congress than Republicans. In 2010 that might change. That’s how we do things around here. We have a vigorous debate and then we vote. Sometimes “our side” wins the election and sometimes “their side” wins. But in the end, we are all Americans who love our country.

    John Wayne may have said it best when referring to John F. Kennedy winning the 1960 election against Richard Nixon: “I didn’t vote for him but he’s my president, and I hope he does a good job.”

  27. Lady Kathleen says:

    Let me state I don’t believe name calling gets anyone anywhere.

    And yes I agree with John Wayne to a point….. where I don’t agree is when sounds like… “Just shut-up and hope”

    If there was a burning building and a child at one of the windows:
    Would you just stand there and hope that someone will save him?
    Would you call 911?
    Would you do something about it?
    Would you scream and shout until someone at least listens?

    Many people see what the government is doing is just like that burning building.
    If you read Rodz latest post you might just see why alot of people are feeling like that child too!

    You can find his lastest post here http://yes-23.com/politics/what-happened-to-representative-government-deem-it-passed/

  28. OldNYFirefighter says:

    Bridgid, the only reason Obama won is because less than 60% of enrolled voted in the last election. Many Libertarians, Conservatives & Independents didn’t vote because they thought neither party had a candidate that was worth voting for. Obama didn’t have any of the qualities I wanted in a leader. He had not even run a lemonade stand. I also did not agree with his Ideology, which is 100% Marxist. I want a leader that follows the Constitution as close to 100% as possible, that said, I wasn’t happy with Bush either, as he made rules under Executive Order which bypasses Congress & is not Constitutional. Obama has the most anti-American czars in the history of this Country. Congress was supposed to be a part time job & representative of the majority of American Citizens. Almost all of the people we have in Congress are Millionaires or close to being one. They are looking out for their interests not the common Citizen. Do you really for one second think that they will be paying the majority of the taxes because they are part of the high earners. They will find ways around it as they already do. How many have been excused, quit or or been indited. Charles Rangle for one. Of the over 400 Representatives almost 200 have been arrested for spousal abuse, drunk driving & many other unlawful acts. Some felonies, but are overlooked or ignored. The biggest majority of our Representatives are no better than common thugs that cheat on Income tax, sexually harass subordinates, beat their spouse, drive drunk & numerous other crimes you & I would be in jail for.
    Obama nor any other President can change the country without the help of Congress. All Laws are Congressional acts which are supposed to be voted on, not pushed through without a real vote. I will leave that up to Constitutional Scholars to decide if it is or isn’t against their Constitutional Authority, & no Obama was not a Constitutional Law Professor. He was a Lecturer who was also a Lawyer. His License to practice was revoked for whatever reason I don’t I don’t profess to know. Congress is getting very close to treasonous acts against the American Citizens & will pay for it in the next election. That is why they haven’t passed that yet. They could have passed it any time after January, so it is not the Repubs that are preventing the vote. Many Democrats are having second thoughts about shoving this down our throats even they know over 60% don’t want this particular Bill passed into law. They are afraid they will not be re-elected & Obama doesn’t care. That is not a good philosophy for a POTUS.

  29. Devin says:

    Ed, You are a fool every other established country in the western world has those rights except the US. Right before FDR died he proposed a 2nd Bill of rights that entitled every American equal rights including a job with a living wage, Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies, a home
    Medical care, Education and Recreation. Unfortunately that never was passed and here we are, without any of those. Several countries including Japan, France, Canada and England have all adopted those rights for their citizens. What you are proposing is what the corporations want you to believe. If you would research a little more I believe you would find that the rest of the western world functions quite well on state run medical and currently the US sits 37th on the World Health Organizations ranking list of health care systems. In between Costa Rica(a third world country) and Latvia. The top 3 including France, Italy and San Marino.. yep you’ve guessed it, are all on government run health care.

  30. Bridgid says:

    Kathleen

    I read Rod’s post and commented on it. I refuse to join in the current high-pitched screamfest that passes for political discourse. The media air is so thick with lies and smears and willfull half-truths that it is choking off the oxygen of rational information that citizens need in order to function.

    The Democrats won the election. They SHOULD push their agenda. When the Republicans win, they will push THEIR agenda, as they did for 5 of the last 8 presidential terms of office. That’s 20 years of Republican agenda-pushing from the White House since 1981. That’s our constitutional Republic in action.

    The house is not on fire.
    Our country is not on the brink of socialism.
    Obama is not a Marxist or a Fascist or a Communist.
    Progressives are not “cancers” or “vermin” or “cockroaches” or any of the other vile and ridiculous caricatures that opportunists like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh paint them as. These men are fear-mongers and hate merchants. But they’re not even committed fear-mongers and hate merchants. They only do it for the money.
    Likewise, the tea party patriots, Southern Republicans, and evangelical Christians are not ignorant clowns or buffoons as Keith Olbermann likes to portray them. They’re you and me. They’re our neighbors.

    I think we would all benefit from turning off the TV and the talk radio and sitting outside on the porch talking to our neighbors, especially our neighbors that have different political views than we do. That’s when we will see that they are, for the most part, decent human beings who just happen to have different political views.

  31. JJ says:

    Welcome to Amerika, comrades..

  32. Will K. says:

    Bridgid, you make way too much sense. These thick headed wingnuts will never get it.
    They are way too brainwashed by now. It’s sad, people in my own family are that way too.
    Scare tactics, fear mongering and outright name calling is all that seems to work.
    So sad it is. I want MY country back. I’ve never been in favor of censorship, but a lot of FOX T.V.
    hosts, and a few on the left side should be taken off the air for the good of the country.
    They try to portray opinion as fact and it’s just all wrong.

  33. JJ says:

    And we would all still be speaking english because we would still be under British rule.

  34. JJ says:

    Kidding aside, it would be nice to live in a world where everything is idyllic and peaceful, but not everything is handed to us on a silver platter. “Show me a place where no one lies, and take me there” says the song. Rationality needs to prevail. Unfortunately it doesn’t always. Lately, perception and shallow thought usurps reality and reason

    How do we cut thorugh the shrill? The frequency cuts like 12″ blades. How do you become heard without increasing the volume?

    I think the shrill from one side is saying we are the frog in the hot water. The other side shrill is saying the other side is lying, this is how it should be.

    The back porch has become DC. I agree with you all. I would like my back porch back.. I prefer it not to be centrally controlled. They can control it many ways. One way – control my disposable income by taking it away.

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